Hello!

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have those
high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will progress, in the
direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk (especially skimmed milk)
cereal (particularly the highly processed ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb
exchanges - all are high carb and don't do your body any favours at all.
Your bg might be dropping back at the moment but you are on a sure-fire
track to it getting to the point where it won't.

"Sean Dennis" wrote in message @216.168.3.70...
> Nicky wrote in
> @4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:15:17 -0000, Sean Dennis
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm limited to 16 servings of carbs a day and I doubt I even get more
>>>than 7 (that's counting the bread in the sandwich too).
>>
>> The only limit that counts is what your meter imposes - what's your bg
>> like an hour after a sandwich?
>
> It's about 175 or so, but does drop fairly quickly.
>
>> Yeah, it really is important. Apart from general fitness, exercising
>> after a meal will really bring your bg down.
>
> That's what I'm planning on doing here after a small meal (I just woke up
> and it's 7:30 PM; I didn't get to bed until noon though).
>
>> The cure often involves a bedtime snack of a little bit of carbs and
>> protein - a couple of PB crackers, for instance - so that there's
>> still glucose left in your system when your liver does a status check.
>> Wine is useful because it delays processing of the carbs - but not
>> essential.
>
> Wow, I learned something new. Razz

>
> That would explain a lot! This morning, I had a /small/ bowl of corn
> flakes, with a cup of skim milk (I no longer drink any other kind of
> milk) and 1/2 packet of Splenda (about 1/2 tsp). I checked my blood
> sugar when I got up and it was 274mg/dL, but I think that's partially due
> to my being really sick last night at work. I must have either eaten
> something I didn't like or had taken my diabetes meds too close together
> because I was painfully sick in the tummy all last night.
>
> I'm feeling better today, but not quite the same. I just ate a very tiny
> (less than a cup) of a nice chicken cassorole my wife made for me at my
> request off the back of a soup can. Smile

After that settles, I'll go for a
> short walk before dark (you don't want to be out in my neighborhood after
> dark!) and see what happens.
>
> Thank you for the information. I've saved that post for future research
> and reference.
>
> --Sean
>
>
> --
> Sean Dennis * sean@outpostbbs.net * http://outpostbbs.net
> Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities
> SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2

Archived from group: alt>food>diabetic

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

"Sean Dennis" wrote in message @216.168.3.70...
>
>> 16x15gms daily is a limit? Wow! Way, way above the carbs I
>> eat and I don't consider myself a low-carber. I may exceed
>> your 7 occasionally, but I'm very careful as to how and with
>> what.
>
> No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.
>
> If I can find my book that I have from my class, it explains a little more
> and that might explain.

I think you do need to explain. The typical "diabetic" meal plan given to
newbies would be easily 16 carb serves - 16 x 15 gr carb. Hells' bells your
cornflakes and skim milk was 2-3 serves in one hit. If you were eating 16 gr
carb per day, that would barely cover your lettuce, cucumber, celery etc.

In other words, there would be no bread, cereal, potato, rice, fruit, milk
pasta. Get the picture?

Alan S · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 134

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:27:51 -0000, Sean Dennis
wrote:

>That would explain a lot! This morning, I had a /small/ bowl of corn
>flakes, with a cup of skim milk (I no longer drink any other kind of
>milk) and 1/2 packet of Splenda (about 1/2 tsp). I checked my blood
>sugar when I got up and it was 274mg/dL, but I think that's partially due
>to my being really sick last night at work.

Considering all the carbs in that cereal and milk, adding
sugar instead of Splenda would probably make no difference.
A bit like adding a can of lighter fluid to a blazing petrol
tank.

Try a selection from these tomorrow:
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/breakfasts.html

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Alan S · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 134

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:32:15 -0000, Sean Dennis
wrote:

>No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.

Sorry mate, but you've been misinformed. One "exchange"
serving is 15gms; not that any sane type 2 uses the exchange
system.

There's probably more than one gram in a couple of
individual cornflakes:-)

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Alan S · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 134

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:24:52 GMT, "Julie Bove"
wrote:

>I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I eat
>15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The
>system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain why
>no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it?
>
I understand it very well Julie. To my mind it's really
designed for insulin users to assist with dosage management,
and for that purpose it may work wonderfully:
http://diabetes.org/for-parents-and-kids/diabetes-care/exchanges.jsp

I accept that I may have exaggerated for emphasis. However,
when it was taught it as a d&e type 2 it was part of the
whole system of "three carbs per meal, one for snacks, 9-12
needed daily for males, 6-9 for females".

It sent my BG's through the roof, stalled my weight loss and
my A1c reduction.

I don't count carbs in 15gm lumps; instead I learned from
"test, test, test" via my meter. Allied to that I know my
limits in gms now for various meals - and none of them are
related to 15gm.

I don't wish to be unkind, but looking back through recent
posts it's hard to consider your opening statement as a
promotion for the exchange system.

Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
--
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

When I was given the exchange system diet you could eat a slice of
wholegrain bread or 1 ounce (dry) of cereal - any cereal. Oats or cornflakes
or sugar frosties etc.All carbs are not alike but an exchange system allows
one to eat whatever 15 gr carb for a serve they wish. Yes, some do say
wholegrain is better but they don't say cornflakes are no-no.

I don't do well on any starches but I do better on grain bread than
cornflakes or white rice.

"Julie Bove" wrote in message $TH2.4328@trndny06...
>
> "Alan S" wrote in message
> @4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:32:15 -0000, Sean Dennis
>> wrote:
>>
>>>No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.
>>
>> Sorry mate, but you've been misinformed. One "exchange"
>> serving is 15gms; not that any sane type 2 uses the exchange
>> system.
>>
>> There's probably more than one gram in a couple of
>> individual cornflakes:-)
>
> I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I
> eat 15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving.
> The system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please
> explain why no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't
> understand it?
>

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

"Sean Dennis" wrote in message @216.168.3.70...
>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have
>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will
>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk
>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed
>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't
>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the
>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point
>> where it won't.
>
> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if
> that.

I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of carbs
eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the same
amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't.

> Canned soup is bad for me because of the salt, period. I'm not allowed
> to have that at all. I'm hypertensive also, so I'm doubly damned.

Ok, I thought you said you asked your wife to make the recipe on the can of
soup.... I have hypertension also, it's a part of the metabolic syndrome -
high cholesterol, triglycerides, BP and ultimately bg. BP is something we
all understand here Smile

> So you're saying skim milk is bad? That's odd, my dietician said skim
> milk was the best for me out of any of them I could have. I don't drink
> milk much anymore, either.

Skim milk has more carbs than full cream milk but a cup of milk has around
13 gr carb or so. It's effect on bg is bad enough that some people use it to
treat hypos in a hurry. Milk is something best left to a time of the day
when insulin resistance is lower - mornings are not good times. Even then it
is not something you could have at the same time as cereal, as you have
already noticed. It sent your bg's soaring.

> To be quite honest, I don't expect to live very long anyway as the drugs
> that I'm taking to help are probably hurting me just as much as they're
> helping me. But I'm going to do what I can and at least drop this 60
> pounds...that alone will help a lot.

Drugs can be a necessary evil, that's why I prefer to treat without them, I
do take a BP med with a diuretic though.

> I'm not fatalistic in my views. Just realizing that a lot of damage has
> already been done that I can't undo and that I'm trying to minimize the
> effects of what's already gone bad.

You'd be surprised at how much you can either undo or halt.

Now on to fats. It seems like you have been given the big scare about fats.
If you want to go along with the scare tactics by cutting out sat and trans
fats then by all means do so but the body absolutely needs certain nutrients
that come from certain fats. You only need to go low ont he sat/trans not
the good fats. having some fat in the diet will also makeyou more satisfied
after a meal and it can flatten the potential rise from carbs. I doubt it
would help with a cornflakes and milk meal though.. Smile

Some good fats come from olives, olive oil, avocados, walnuts etc.

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

"Julie Bove" wrote in message $YN2.1001@trndny07...
>
> "Ozgirl" wrote in message
> @news.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Sean Dennis" wrote in message
>> @216.168.3.70...
>>>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have
>>>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will
>>>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk
>>>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed
>>>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't
>>>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the
>>>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point
>>>> where it won't.
>>>
>>> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if
>>> that.
>>
>> I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of
>> carbs eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the
>> same amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't.
>
> True, but if he's having stomach issues like I have, this might not be
> possible.

If he is eating two meals a day they would have to have adequate calories to
survive. He is eating low fat so that leaves carb and protein. Let's take
the one meal of cornflakes and skimmed milk. Small bowl he mentioned. Let's
say at best it was 30 gr carb. The other meal. Chicken casserole? If he does
have gastroparesis, no way he could hold a full sized meal without tossing
his cookies or having it sit there for anything up to few days. So two meals
a day would mean he is eating a lot (more carbs which create a large spike)
or too little (and he would be grossly shortchanging the calories). I can't
see the first scenario (eating a lot) being one that could happen with
gastroparesis. So if Sean is eating more than a small meal at a time then he
is most likely eating too many carbs (as is being evidenced by his high bg's
after meals - despite diabetic medication).

Once that pyloric valves narrows instead of opening fully after a meal (as
is the case with gastroparesis) there is only one way for that food to go if
it is not small enough to remain in the stomach. He would be vomiting it out
and yes he has mentioned he vomited and can't usually eat in the mornings
because he feels physically sick. But that still isn't conclusive of
gastroparesis, it could be or not.

Why wouldn't a person with gastroparesis be able to take a snack of a bit
sized cracker spread with a bit of cottage cheese and a slice of thin
tomato? Snacks don't have to be 2 slices of bread with meat and salad. If
one can't eat a normal sized meal, why wouldn't it make more sense to eat
more often but in much smaller amounts? Or have a couple of snacks that are
liquid only etc.

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

"Julie Bove" wrote in message

> I suppose if one can do dairy they could have liquid snacks, but I don't
> know otherwise what would work. Fruit juice would certainly spike me.

Veggie juice Smile

Celery, a tad of carrot (it spikes more as a juice), other
vegetables one likes that aren't too starchy. I love home juiced veggie
juices. Clear broths (beef, chicken etc). Almond milk.