Hello!

Sean Dennis · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 19

> Thank you for that explanation I have asked my Diabetic Nurse about
> this a few times and got a reply which didn't make any sense, now I
> understand. Thanks again

Heck, I didn't even know it existed...I'd asked all of my doctors about it
and gotten some lame explaination (which was nothing of this caliber) back.

Who says you can't learn new things from the newsgroups? Razz

--Sean

--
Sean Dennis * sean@outpostbbs.net * http://outpostbbs.net
Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities
SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2

Archived from group: alt>food>diabetic

Sean Dennis · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 19

> 16x15gms daily is a limit? Wow! Way, way above the carbs I
> eat and I don't consider myself a low-carber. I may exceed
> your 7 occasionally, but I'm very careful as to how and with
> what.

No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.

If I can find my book that I have from my class, it explains a little more
and that might explain.

Also, like Nicky has said, DP might have something to do with my weird BG,
but the main thing is the lack of exercise, I know it.

I really don't like to eat too much anymore, especially at work. I get
violently ill if I do. I also have to be extremely careful of what I eat
or else my stomach gets really mad. That really has nothing to do with my
diabetes, but more with the sensitive stomach I inherited.

--Sean

--
Sean Dennis * sean@outpostbbs.net * http://outpostbbs.net
Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities
SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Sean Dennis" wrote in message @216.168.3.70...
>
>> 16x15gms daily is a limit? Wow! Way, way above the carbs I
>> eat and I don't consider myself a low-carber. I may exceed
>> your 7 occasionally, but I'm very careful as to how and with
>> what.
>
> No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.
>
> If I can find my book that I have from my class, it explains a little more
> and that might explain.
>
> Also, like Nicky has said, DP might have something to do with my weird BG,
> but the main thing is the lack of exercise, I know it.
>
> I really don't like to eat too much anymore, especially at work. I get
> violently ill if I do. I also have to be extremely careful of what I eat
> or else my stomach gets really mad. That really has nothing to do with my
> diabetes, but more with the sensitive stomach I inherited.

Or you might have gastroparesis like I do. That's nerve damage to the
stomach caused by diabetes.

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Ozgirl" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...
>
> "Sean Dennis" wrote in message
> @216.168.3.70...
>>
>>> 16x15gms daily is a limit? Wow! Way, way above the carbs I
>>> eat and I don't consider myself a low-carber. I may exceed
>>> your 7 occasionally, but I'm very careful as to how and with
>>> what.
>>
>> No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.
>>
>> If I can find my book that I have from my class, it explains a little
>> more
>> and that might explain.
>
> I think you do need to explain. The typical "diabetic" meal plan given to
> newbies would be easily 16 carb serves - 16 x 15 gr carb. Hells' bells
> your cornflakes and skim milk was 2-3 serves in one hit. If you were
> eating 16 gr carb per day, that would barely cover your lettuce, cucumber,
> celery etc.
>
> In other words, there would be no bread, cereal, potato, rice, fruit, milk
> pasta. Get the picture?

Yeah. Something doesn't sound right. 1g can't possibly be a serving of
anything.

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Alan S" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:32:15 -0000, Sean Dennis
> wrote:
>
>>No, that's 16g a day, Alan. Smile

1g is one serving.
>
> Sorry mate, but you've been misinformed. One "exchange"
> serving is 15gms; not that any sane type 2 uses the exchange
> system.
>
> There's probably more than one gram in a couple of
> individual cornflakes:-)

I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I eat
15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The
system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain why
no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it?

W. Baker · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 97

Alan S wrote:
: On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:24:52 GMT, "Julie Bove"
: wrote:

: >I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I eat
: >15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The
: >system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain why
: >no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it?
: >
: I understand it very well Julie. To my mind it's really
: designed for insulin users to assist with dosage management,
: and for that purpose it may work wonderfully:
: http://diabetes.org/for-parents-and-kids/diabetes-care/exchanges.jsp

: I accept that I may have exaggerated for emphasis. However,
: when it was taught it as a d&e type 2 it was part of the
: whole system of "three carbs per meal, one for snacks, 9-12
: needed daily for males, 6-9 for females".

: It sent my BG's through the roof, stalled my weight loss and
: my A1c reduction.

: I don't count carbs in 15gm lumps; instead I learned from
: "test, test, test" via my meter. Allied to that I know my
: limits in gms now for various meals - and none of them are
: related to 15gm.

: I don't wish to be unkind, but looking back through recent
: posts it's hard to consider your opening statement as a
: promotion for the exchange system.

: Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
: d&e, metformin 1500mg, ezetrol 10mg
: Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
: --
: http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com

My dietician gave me 1 1/2 carb exchabnges for breakfast, 2 for lunch and
3 for dinner with 2 1 exchange snacks, but not fruit as it might spike me
so only with other food. This was part o fa weight loss program as well
as diabetic control. It proved too muchfo rme so I switched to cocunting
carbs, figuring 15-20grs for lunch an ddinner (occasionally 30 at dinner
and my cottage cheese, fruit and yogurt breakfast which counts fairly high
but seems to work for me.

Wendy

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Alan S" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:24:52 GMT, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:
>
>>I use the Exchange system and I know I'm not alone. That doesn't mean I
>>eat
>>15 servings of carbs per day or even necessarily one whole serving. The
>>system does allow for 1/2 a serving, 1/4 a serving etc. Please explain
>>why
>>no sane type 2 would use it? Or perhaps you just don't understand it?
>>
> I understand it very well Julie. To my mind it's really
> designed for insulin users to assist with dosage management,
> and for that purpose it may work wonderfully:
> http://diabetes.org/for-parents-and-kids/diabetes-care/exchanges.jsp
>
> I accept that I may have exaggerated for emphasis. However,
> when it was taught it as a d&e type 2 it was part of the
> whole system of "three carbs per meal, one for snacks, 9-12
> needed daily for males, 6-9 for females".
>
> It sent my BG's through the roof, stalled my weight loss and
> my A1c reduction.
>
> I don't count carbs in 15gm lumps; instead I learned from
> "test, test, test" via my meter. Allied to that I know my
> limits in gms now for various meals - and none of them are
> related to 15gm.
>
> I don't wish to be unkind, but looking back through recent
> posts it's hard to consider your opening statement as a
> promotion for the exchange system.

I still use the exchange system and it works for me, when my BG isn't being
wacky like it is recently. Now, NO system will work for me because it seems
it doesn't matter what I eat or don't eat. I'll either go hypo or more
likely have high BG.

I am not promoting the Exchange system. And the Exchange system does not
promote a set amount of carbs for anyone. It is merely a guide to tell you
approximately what is safe for you to eat at each meal. You, meaning you as
an individual.

I never had diabetes education. I only saw dieticians. Three of them. All
used the Exchange system when explaining the diets. I think it particularly
useful for people who haven't a clue what a serving size is. And amazingly
there are a lot of them out there. Especially if they are used to dining
out. They make be shocked to learn that a serving of pasta is 1/2 a cup and
not an entire heaping plateful.

Granted there is no way for a dietician to know exactly how your body works
and what exactly you can eat. That is why the diet he/she gives you is a
starting point only. I believe it is an optimal diet, assuming you can eat
as many carbs as is on it as written. There was a time when I could do
that. I can't now. Nor can I take in as many calories as was on that diet,
or even eat three meals daily for that matter. We're all different.

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Ozgirl" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...
> When I was given the exchange system diet you could eat a slice of
> wholegrain bread or 1 ounce (dry) of cereal - any cereal. Oats or
> cornflakes or sugar frosties etc.All carbs are not alike but an exchange
> system allows one to eat whatever 15 gr carb for a serve they wish. Yes,
> some do say wholegrain is better but they don't say cornflakes are no-no.
>
> I don't do well on any starches but I do better on grain bread than
> cornflakes or white rice.

My plan did not say I *could* eat any of those things I wanted. It was
merely pointing out what a serving size was. A general guideline.

When I was pregnant, the dietician I saw gave me specific examples of foods
I should not eat ever. I can't say I could follow her reasoning, but it
applied to me and me alone, given the somewhat limited parameters of my diet
at the time. I did not know about my food allergies, but I was attempting
to do a vegetarian diet and she also took my pregnancy into account. I was
never to eat peas or any cereal that had sweetener of any kind in it. I'm
sure there were some other things, but they were likely things I didn't eat
much to begin with so I paid them no mind.

She was a big bread pusher. I was eating little to no bread before I was
pregnant. I have a feeling there must be folic acid or some such thing in
the bread and this is why she was so keen on it. I do remember being very
burned out on bread and stopped eating it again after I had the baby.

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"W. Baker" wrote in message $1ak$1@reader1.panix.com...

> My dietician gave me 1 1/2 carb exchabnges for breakfast, 2 for lunch and
> 3 for dinner with 2 1 exchange snacks, but not fruit as it might spike me
> so only with other food. This was part o fa weight loss program as well
> as diabetic control. It proved too muchfo rme so I switched to cocunting
> carbs, figuring 15-20grs for lunch an ddinner (occasionally 30 at dinner
> and my cottage cheese, fruit and yogurt breakfast which counts fairly high
> but seems to work for me.

My last one gave me 2 carb exchanges for breakfast, 3 for lunch, 3 for
dinner and 2 for bedtime snack. If I ate fruit (which I generally do not),
it had to be counted as a carb exchange. Same goes for milk, although I
didn't have that either.

Gastroparesis aside, this is still pretty much how I would be eating today.
Because of that I find I can have either breakfast or lunch but not both. I
usually have breakfast then an early dinner around 3:30 or so and my snack
around 11.

Sean Dennis · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 19

I don't know who said that this newsgroup was inactive, but they were
wrong. Glad I have time on my hands at work. Smile

> Considering all the carbs in that cereal and milk, adding
> sugar instead of Splenda would probably make no difference.
> A bit like adding a can of lighter fluid to a blazing petrol
> tank.

Sugar makes my tongue swell, so I don't eat it much anymore, diabetes
aside. I could actually do without the Splenda as I have learned to eat
things without adding any additional sweetener.

> Try a selection from these tomorrow:
> http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/breakfasts.html

Yes, but what no one here seems to understand is that I get sick when I
eat in the mornings. It's NOT my diabetes nor is it anything to do with
my health. I've never been able to eat early in the mornings as I get
violently ill. I prefer to eat later when my stomach is settled.

Now, as for the "carb subsitution": It's 14 grams per meal, three meals a
day. However, it was recommended that I eat a small snack every 2-3
hours instead of large meals.

To help everyone understand my sleep schedule and why things are off:

-- I get off work at 8 AM. I head home, get there around 8:30 AM. I get
to bed normally before 10 AM, but like today, sometimes I can't get to
bed until noon. Here's what I take in the morning (I can't remember the
dosages right off the top of my head):

glizipide
glimiperide (anti-lipid)
81 mg asprin (doctor's orders)
Prilosec
Avandia

In the evening, I just take my glizipide and glimiperide.

-- I will sleep 12-14 hours. Period. On a rare day, like today, I slept
seven hours. But I haven't been feeling well from my bilateral carpul
tunnel syndrome acting up...my hands will wake me up from a deep sleep,
and I've aggrivated them lately.

-- When I get up, I'm pretty damn hungry. But even then I don't eat
right away. I generally check my BG then (I check it once a day,
sometimes twice).

-- When I'm at work, I generally have dinner at 4 AM EDT (UTC -4). I do
have a small snack (usually a couple of crackers) at 0200 and 0600 to
keep off the hungries. I also drink water at times to keep the hunger
down. I don't always eat when I'm hungry. I usually only eat when I
really feel I need to or am losing my concentration on tasks.

Unless you've worked overnights, which thankfully those of you who have
here do, it's hard to understand, especially being a diabetic, why I
don't like to eat very much. To be honest, I've become pretty disgusted
with myself and the fact that I've carried this extra weight for 10+
years (hell, not even the US Army could get it off of me!). I do eat,
just not very much anymore.

I know about the body converting everything into fat if you starve
yourself, etc. I don't starve myself. I just don't eat much! My
problem is that I tend to eat too much at times and I am consiously
working on that. That's a big part of the reason I'm still heavy. I use
my fist as a general serving size of nearly everything solid. I eat what
is the size of my fist and I'm generally happy (and causing my stomach to
shrink too).

I'm telling you all that once I get into an exercise regimen, I'll be
doing a LOT better. I moved a few months ago into my current home.
During the time that I was moving (about two weeks), my BG dropped into
the basement (around 70-80 resting). When I went back to my old ways, it
shot back up to 120-150.

I think that's a good enough reason to start exercising. Smile

I eat cereal in the morning because it's one of the few things I can
tolerate when I get up (besides yogurt and cottage cheese, but I don't
have them often). I eat very lightly the rest of the day also, so
although there's a lot of carbs in the cereal, I'll wait six to seven
hours sometimes before eating again.

What works for you may not work for me. I take everyone's advice and I
don't expect everyone to understand my situation. However, I may be back
on the day shift sometime in the beginning of next year (we are severely
short-handed and I'm actually doing something that isn't really part of
my job). When that happens, I think things will level out.

I do have the support of my wife and my family, so what I know is not all
for naught. Just sometimes, I'm too damn tired to care. I am so tired,
all the time, that I rarely do anything but get up, shower, dress, eat
something small and go to work. My wife and I don't spend barely anytime
together because I'm always asleep.

One more thing: when I am reading/writing this, my brain is not at full
capacity...I'm usually half-asleep when I'm writing. If I say something
that doesn't make sense, that's generally the reason why and not because
I'm a nincompoop about my health (explaining the 14g a day mistake).

--Sean

--
Sean Dennis * sean@outpostbbs.net * http://outpostbbs.net
Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities
SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2

Sean Dennis · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 19

> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have
> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will
> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk
> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed
> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't
> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the
> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point
> where it won't.

See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if
that.

Canned soup is bad for me because of the salt, period. I'm not allowed
to have that at all. I'm hypertensive also, so I'm doubly damned.

So you're saying skim milk is bad? That's odd, my dietician said skim
milk was the best for me out of any of them I could have. I don't drink
milk much anymore, either.

Considering that my BG was running at 400+ for a long time, this is a
huge step for me.

To be quite honest, I don't expect to live very long anyway as the drugs
that I'm taking to help are probably hurting me just as much as they're
helping me. But I'm going to do what I can and at least drop this 60
pounds...that alone will help a lot.

I'm not fatalistic in my views. Just realizing that a lot of damage has
already been done that I can't undo and that I'm trying to minimize the
effects of what's already gone bad.

--
Sean Dennis * sean@outpostbbs.net * http://outpostbbs.net
Author of Cheepware BBS doors and sysop utilities
SysOp of Outpost BBS running Telegard/2 under eComStation 1.2

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Sean Dennis" wrote in message @216.168.3.70...
>I don't know who said that this newsgroup was inactive, but they were
> wrong. Glad I have time on my hands at work. Smile

It's not inactive. It's just that alt.support.diabetes is usually a lot
more active than this.
>

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Ozgirl" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...
>
> "Sean Dennis" wrote in message
> @216.168.3.70...
>>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have
>>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will
>>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk
>>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed
>>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't
>>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the
>>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point
>>> where it won't.
>>
>> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if
>> that.
>
> I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of carbs
> eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the same
> amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't.

True, but if he's having stomach issues like I have, this might not be
possible.
>

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Ozgirl" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...
>
> "Julie Bove" wrote in message
> $YN2.1001@trndny07...
>>
>> "Ozgirl" wrote in message
>> @news.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> "Sean Dennis" wrote in message
>>> @216.168.3.70...
>>>>> You do realise that the more often you eat those carby meals and have
>>>>> those high after meal and fasting bg's that your diabetes will
>>>>> progress, in the direction you don't want it to. Canned soup, milk
>>>>> (especially skimmed milk) cereal (particularly the highly processed
>>>>> ones like Cornflakes, 7 carb exchanges - all are high carb and don't
>>>>> do your body any favours at all. Your bg might be dropping back at the
>>>>> moment but you are on a sure-fire track to it getting to the point
>>>>> where it won't.
>>>>
>>>> See my post to Alan. I will generally eat only once or twice a day, if
>>>> that.
>>>
>>> I think this might be the point you are missing. A certain number of
>>> carbs eaten over two meals will do a big number on your bg's whereas the
>>> same amount of carb spread over a numbers meals/snacks doesn't.
>>
>> True, but if he's having stomach issues like I have, this might not be
>> possible.
>
> If he is eating two meals a day they would have to have adequate calories
> to survive. He is eating low fat so that leaves carb and protein. Let's
> take the one meal of cornflakes and skimmed milk. Small bowl he mentioned.
> Let's say at best it was 30 gr carb. The other meal. Chicken casserole? If
> he does have gastroparesis, no way he could hold a full sized meal without
> tossing his cookies or having it sit there for anything up to few days. So
> two meals a day would mean he is eating a lot (more carbs which create a
> large spike) or too little (and he would be grossly shortchanging the
> calories). I can't see the first scenario (eating a lot) being one that
> could happen with gastroparesis. So if Sean is eating more than a small
> meal at a time then he is most likely eating too many carbs (as is being
> evidenced by his high bg's after meals - despite diabetic medication).

Maybe. But what he is eating doesn't sound so different than what I have to
eat when my stomach is acting up. And it's pretty much all carbs. Although
they are small meals. I tend to lose weight quickly when my stomach is
acting up. But I've since put some of that back on.
>
> Once that pyloric valves narrows instead of opening fully after a meal (as
> is the case with gastroparesis) there is only one way for that food to go
> if it is not small enough to remain in the stomach. He would be vomiting
> it out and yes he has mentioned he vomited and can't usually eat in the
> mornings because he feels physically sick. But that still isn't conclusive
> of gastroparesis, it could be or not.

True. He didn't say if he knew the reason or not.
>
> Why wouldn't a person with gastroparesis be able to take a snack of a bit
> sized cracker spread with a bit of cottage cheese and a slice of thin
> tomato? Snacks don't have to be 2 slices of bread with meat and salad. If
> one can't eat a normal sized meal, why wouldn't it make more sense to eat
> more often but in much smaller amounts? Or have a couple of snacks that
> are liquid only etc.

Well, I can't because I am simply not at all hungry and can't eat when I'm
not hungry. I can't do dairy and I don't personally seem to have problems
with tomatoes but the gastroparesis diet is supposed to be low in fiber with
no raw fruits or vegetables.

Another thing I have found, if I do have a snack between meals or have three
meals in one day, it increases my changes of throwing up. Alas I have no
advance warning of whether my stomach is working or not so it seems best in
that regard to keep it fairly empty.

I suppose if one can do dairy they could have liquid snacks, but I don't
know otherwise what would work. Fruit juice would certainly spike me.

Julie Bove · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 494

"Ozgirl" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...
>
> "Julie Bove" wrote in message
>
>> I suppose if one can do dairy they could have liquid snacks, but I don't
>> know otherwise what would work. Fruit juice would certainly spike me.
>
> Veggie juice Smile

Celery, a tad of carrot (it spikes more as a juice), other
> vegetables one likes that aren't too starchy. I love home juiced veggie
> juices. Clear broths (beef, chicken etc). Almond milk.

I'm allergic to almonds. Can't stand veggie juice and broth doesn't have
enough in it to help me. I do have broth on occasion but wouldn't consider
it much of a snack. It's always something.