Hi.... can someone help.........

Cheri · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 93

We knew that. Smile

Cheri

Ma¢k wrote in message ...
>[Default] On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:18:42 -0500, Susan
> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>
>>
>>Ma¢k wrote:
>>
>>>>One point he makes - there are certainly essential proteins; there
are
>>>>also certain essential fats; there are no essential carbohydrates.
>>>>
>>>
>
>I did not write that.
>
>--
>Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
>Type 1 since 1975
>http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
>http://www.diabetic-talk.org
>http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
>http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"
>
>
>
>"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
> President, or that we are to stand by the President
> right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
> but is morally treasonable to the American public."
>...Theodore Roosevelt
>
> (o ô)
>--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------
>
>"I don't know half of you
> half as well as I should like;
> and I like less than half of you
> half as well as you deserve."
> ....Bilbo Baggins
>
>
>DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
>offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
>If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
>me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
>.
>
>
>

Archived from group: alt>food>diabetic

Nicky · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, "L. Conrad"
wrote:

>Your replies will be printed and given to them this coming weekend.

For the record, I'm doing the same thing as your BIL, and feel great.
But I think you're more likely to lose friends than change minds by
trying to get people to change their diet...

How about working on the exercise part of the equation instead? A walk
an hour after eating can make a big difference to blood glucose
levels. So could a bowling game, or a swim, or a trip to the gym...

Nicky.
T2 DX 05/2004
A1c 5.5% BMI 25 D&E
100ug Thyroxine

Ozgirl · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 102

Ma¢k wrote:
> [Default] On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, "L. Conrad"
> Giggled into the madness of usenet:
>
>>I'm asking this because I have several friends and a
brother in law
>>with diabetes. My BIL doesn't need insulin as he controls
his
>>diabetes with diet alone. He's on a really low carb diet
and is doing
>>great. He also lost his excess weight. No, his
cholesterol levels
>>are not out of sight, staying under 200. He is in his
mid 70s now.
>>But my friends, ages from 50 to 75 will not eat a low carb
diet, one
>>doesn't even seem to realize what foods are high in carbs
or sugars.
>>One says carbs are necessary for health. The research
I've done so
>>far says that is not true since humans can make their own
carbs from
>>protein by splitting off one atom or some such (think
Eskimos and far
>>north peoples). I learned no one ever suffered a carb
deficiency.
>>They are unwilling to give up the foods they love such as
potatoes,
>>peas, bagels, cereals, corn etc.
>>
>>The questions are:
>>
>>Can a diabetic, already on insulin control their
blood-sugar better by
>>adopting a very low carb, or near no carb diet?
>>Can a diabetic who adopts a low carb diet improve their
blood values
>>and need LESS insulin?
>>Would the need for less insulin be better for their
general health?
>>Can a diabetic slowly lower their carb levels to see if
less insulin
>>is needed?
>>
>>Your replies will be printed and given to them this coming
weekend.
>>
>>Thank you for your time.......
>
>
> type 1 diabetes is due to a lack of insulin production.
Every human
> needs a certain amount of insulin in their system. This
background or
> basal insulin maintains BG levels between meals and
prevents DKA a
> potentially fatal condition.
>
> A type 1 does not need to go low carb. and in some cases
due to
> individual characteristics in that one person, it could be
very
> dangerous. and make them more prone to severe hypos.
Frequent hypos
> leads to increased hypo unawareness. This is a very
dangerous problem
> for those prone to hypos (low blood sugars). They can
frequently not
> notice an oncoming hypo until they pass out and wake up,
if they are
> lucky, in the ER.
>
>
> there are simply too many variables involved to give
suggestions
> through a third party.
>
> Bring the individual here.

The line of questioning from the OP is suggestive of his
friends being type 2. I hope he will clarify this.

Ma¢k · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 3

[Default] On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:18:42 -0500, Susan
Giggled into the madness of usenet:

>
>Ma¢k wrote:
>
>>>One point he makes - there are certainly essential proteins; there are
>>>also certain essential fats; there are no essential carbohydrates.
>>>
>>

I did not write that.

--
Mâck©® Deltec CoZmore Pumper
Type 1 since 1975
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org
http://www.diabetic-talk.org
http://www.insulin-pumpers.org
http://www.pandora.com enter "Jason & Demarco"

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the
President, or that we are to stand by the President
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
....Theodore Roosevelt

(o ô)
--ooO-(_)-Ooo--------------------

"I don't know half of you
half as well as I should like;
and I like less than half of you
half as well as you deserve."
....Bilbo Baggins

DISCLAIMER If you find a posting or message from me
offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate...
..

L. Conrad · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 11

"Ozgirl" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...

> The line of questioning from the OP is suggestive of his
> friends being type 2. I hope he will clarify this.

I am printing up all your replies. I know little about Diabetes since I do
not have the condition. These people all have "adult onset" diabetes. I
believe that it's known as Type #2.

One of these friends, a male age 62 lives on a high carbohydrate diet and
drinks at least one six-pack of beer a night. He does not exercise due to
the pain and swelling in his feet. Encouraging him to get on a better diet
with less "sugars" has done no good. His feet are discolored and he was
told he may lose one or both.

He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on indictable insulin
for 6 years now.

L. Conrad · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 11

"ray" wrote in message @zianet.com...
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, L. Conrad wrote:
>
>> I'm asking this because I have several friends and a brother in law with
>> diabetes. My BIL doesn't need insulin as he controls his diabetes with
>> diet
>> alone. He's on a really low carb diet and is doing great. He also lost
>> his
>> excess weight. No, his cholesterol levels are not out of sight, staying
>> under 200. He is in his mid 70s now. But my friends, ages from 50 to
>> 75
>> will not eat a low carb diet, one doesn't even seem to realize what foods
>> are high in carbs or sugars. One says carbs are necessary for health.
>> The
>> research I've done so far says that is not true since humans can make
>> their
>> own carbs from protein by splitting off one atom or some such (think
>> Eskimos
>> and far north peoples). I learned no one ever suffered a carb
>> deficiency.
>> They are unwilling to give up the foods they love such as potatoes, peas,
>> bagels, cereals, corn etc.
>>
>> The questions are:
>>
>> Can a diabetic, already on insulin control their blood-sugar better by
>> adopting a very low carb, or near no carb diet?
>> Can a diabetic who adopts a low carb diet improve their blood values and
>> need LESS insulin?
>> Would the need for less insulin be better for their general health?
>> Can a diabetic slowly lower their carb levels to see if less insulin is
>> needed?
>
> I would refer you to Dr. Richard Bernstein's "Diabetes Solution". He has
> been a type 1 diabetic for nearly 60 years and is in excellent health. His
> answer to your queries would be 'yes'. He advocates a diet of 30 grams of
> cabohydrates daily for insulin users. Please note I am not affiliated with
> Dr. B. - I have a copy of his book which I reread from time to time. I
> credit his basic approach to helping me gain control.
>
> One point he makes - there are certainly essential proteins; there are
> also certain essential fats; there are no essential carbohydrates.
>
> Good luck.

Thank you for all for your replies. I believe many diabetics would not be
willing to give up the foods they love to keep to a 30g carb a day diet.
That is essentially the problem with my friends. They wont give up what the
love to help themselves. None are really active or into physical activity
of any type beyond the usual shopping or house cleaning. Only my BIL is
willing to do this, plus walk 2 miles most days, and has remained in good
health for years. He said if he went off the strict diet he would eventually
need to go the injectable route and wants to avoid that possibility.

They will see the recommendation of the book above.

L. Conrad · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 11

"Susan" wrote in message @mid.individual.net...
>
> "the line "there are no essential carbohydrates" is misleading. Just
> because there are no specific sources of carbs that are essential does
> not equate to carbs are not essential."
>
> Susan

I have not yet heard of anyone suffering a carb deficiency since the
popularity of the low carb diets for weight loss. I would think getting all
the vitamins and minerals needed would be difficult if all one ate was an
assortment of meats. OTOH the greens such as Swiss chard, spinach, collards
etc are very low in carbs but do indeed contain many vitamins and minerals.

L. Conrad · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 11

"rk" wrote in message @wideopenwest.com...

>
> Well here goes Ray again in his cheer for bernsquack!!! The OP should be
> adviced that Ray doesn't have any personal FIRST hand experience with
> Insulin only what he has read from someone that MANY T1's find to be a
> Quack
> with a personal agenda of ONLY selling his book.
>
> Find me a crowd of 100, T1's and I'll show you maybe IF you're lucky to
> find
> 1 that follows the Quacks advice. Any T1 eating 30gms a day is looking
> for
> problems being a diabetic. This isnt' advocated by any other reputable
> Endo
> (which the quack isn't)
>
> The OP should tell his friend to seek qualified medical help.
>

They all do see their Drs but from what I can see do not follow the diets
they were given. I am hoping to convince them of the importance of diet as
one friend has already passed away from complications of diabetes. She had
adult onset. I don't want to lose another friend to this disease. I gasp
when we go out to eat and I see one of them eat a large portion of macaroni
with bread on the side. I also know one who may eat a normal meal but then
have a sugar laden slice of pie or a donut for dessert. One friend has no
idea what foods contain carbs and how many. She appears to have no interest
in learning either. It's frustrating for those of us who care for people
with this condition to see these things knowing they're surely harming
themselves.

L. Conrad · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 11

"Julie Bove" wrote in message $gS1.22393@trndny01...
>

> Low carb diets work for some people but not all. And some people (like
> me) do not feel at all well on it. I certainly do not eat all carb laden
> foods, nor did I eat them all prior to diabetes. I do limit my portions.
> In fact when I did try low carbing, my BG shot up even higher than it
> would have on my limited carb diet.

Can that be explained somehow? I was under the impression that fats and
protein do not raise the GB to abnormal levels.

> I've never used insulin so I don't know a lot about it. I do know that a
> person who has type 1 (meaning they produce no insulin whatever) can
> sometimes have more leeway with their diet than a type 2 who uses insulin.
> There are just so many variables.

Yes, I can see that as I read all your replies.

> You seem to be convinced that low carb is the only way to go. And you
> don't seem to understand much about diabetes.

That's why I am asking for information from the horse's mouths so to speak.
I was impressed by my BIL's continued good health on a low carb diet for all
these many years. He was the one who peaked my interest in looking into diet
and diabetes where my other friends from church with the disease were
concerned.

There are over 300 types of
> diabetes but we are generally lumped together as type 1, type 2, or
> gestational. I'm a type 2 who produced a ton of natural insulin but I
> have insulin resistance. The fact that a person does not use insulin does
> not mean in some way that they are better than a person who does not.
> People use it because they have to use it.

Thank you.

L. Conrad · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 11

"Nicky" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, "L. Conrad"
> wrote:
>
>>Your replies will be printed and given to them this coming weekend.
>
> For the record, I'm doing the same thing as your BIL, and feel great.
> But I think you're more likely to lose friends than change minds by
> trying to get people to change their diet...

Fear not, I will not cram the issue down their throats. We had a discussion
at one meeting concerning diseases like diabetes and heart disease and how
they're related to diet and exercise. I told them I would ask on the "the
net" and report back to them. I come from a small town area where many
people my age lack interest in learning how to use a computer. Using
computers is another thing I am trying to get them interested in.

> How about working on the exercise part of the equation instead? A walk
> an hour after eating can make a big difference to blood glucose
> levels. So could a bowling game, or a swim, or a trip to the gym...

That will also be covered this weekend. It appears that many older folks are
no more interested in starting an exercise program then they are in changing
their eating habits.

>
> Nicky.
> T2 DX 05/2004
> A1c 5.5% BMI 25 D&E
> 100ug Thyroxine

DonnaB shallotpeel · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 4

In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:51:01 -0600 in Msg.#
, "L. Conrad" wrote:

> That will also be covered this weekend. It appears that many older folks are
> no more interested in starting an exercise program then they are in changing
> their eating habits.

Some people are simply resigned that this is the kind of thing that happens
to you when you get old. When thinking you're old in itself, that attitude,
can be playing a part in their overall health.

There are numerous 'tests' on the web - and some doctor's offices have them
as software - where you calculate your age by your health risks. And, many
of them show you how many years you could get back from that estimate by
doing 'x' thing, whether that be diet, exercise, stopping smoking, ...
whatever. That kind of thing might be illustrative to them.

--
DonnaB 09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0

rk · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 8

"W. Baker" wrote in message $5nh$1@reader2.panix.com...
: In alt.support.diabetes Ozgirl wrote:
:: L. Conrad wrote:
:
:: > He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on
:: indictable
:: > insulin
:
:: Did you spellchecker have a mind of its own here? Wink

:
: Yeah, what's the offence of that poor insulin?
:

too hormonal........................

rk · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 8

"L. Conrad" wrote in message @x-privat.org...
:
: "rk" wrote in message
: @wideopenwest.com...
:
:
: >
: > Well here goes Ray again in his cheer for bernsquack!!! The OP should be
: > adviced that Ray doesn't have any personal FIRST hand experience with
: > Insulin only what he has read from someone that MANY T1's find to be a
: > Quack
: > with a personal agenda of ONLY selling his book.
: >
: > Find me a crowd of 100, T1's and I'll show you maybe IF you're lucky to
: > find
: > 1 that follows the Quacks advice. Any T1 eating 30gms a day is looking
: > for
: > problems being a diabetic. This isnt' advocated by any other reputable
: > Endo
: > (which the quack isn't)
: >
: > The OP should tell his friend to seek qualified medical help.
: >
:
: They all do see their Drs but from what I can see do not follow the diets
: they were given. I am hoping to convince them of the importance of diet as
: one friend has already passed away from complications of diabetes. She
had
: adult onset. I don't want to lose another friend to this disease. I gasp
: when we go out to eat and I see one of them eat a large portion of
macaroni
: with bread on the side. I also know one who may eat a normal meal but
then
: have a sugar laden slice of pie or a donut for dessert. One friend has no
: idea what foods contain carbs and how many. She appears to have no
interest
: in learning either. It's frustrating for those of us who care for people
: with this condition to see these things knowing they're surely harming
: themselves.
:

I'm sure it is hard to sit back and watch... but unfortunately, you can't
make
them change or learn unless they want. Depression is a very real possibly
when dealing with someone with diabetes. Not to say they need medication
but talking to other diabetics locally might be one trick.

Best of luck.

rk · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 8

"L. Conrad" wrote in message @x-privat.org...
:
: "Julie Bove" wrote in message
: $gS1.22393@trndny01...
: >
:
:
: > Low carb diets work for some people but not all. And some people (like
: > me) do not feel at all well on it. I certainly do not eat all carb
laden
: > foods, nor did I eat them all prior to diabetes. I do limit my
portions.
: > In fact when I did try low carbing, my BG shot up even higher than it
: > would have on my limited carb diet.
:
: Can that be explained somehow? I was under the impression that fats and
: protein do not raise the GB to abnormal levels.

fats do not, but protein will convert into glucose about 5-6hrs after you
eat it
and it will cause a rise. some might show none, because they have enough
insulin to cover it, others might show some, others might see quite a bit of
a
rise. If I eat a 7oz steak and go to bed with a glucose of 90, unless I
combo
bolus on my pump, I'll see 200+ easy the next morning from the rise from the
converted protein.

DonnaB shallotpeel · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 4

In alt.support.diabetes on Thu, 25 Jan 2007 22:09:36 +0000 (UTC) in Msg.#
, "W. Baker" wrote:

> In alt.support.diabetes Ozgirl wrote:
> : L. Conrad wrote:
>
> : > He checks his blood once or twice a day and has been on
> : indictable > : > insulin
>
> : Did you spellchecker have a mind of its own here? Wink

>
> Yeah, what's the offence of that poor insulin?

Why, insolence, of course.

--
DonnaB 09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0
06-07-06 Diagnosis T2 hbA1C 8.1, D&E & Metformin 500mg.
09-11-06 hbA1C 5.0