sake with sushi?

War · Joined: 06 Dec 2007 Posts: 4

This is mostly a question for Ken, but anyone who can help me may
certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
not mixing well with the rice food. Just one of those things that
evolved culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand.
Numerous sources have indicated that this is the case, again,
traditionally, not practically. Practically, people do it all the time
and never think twice, and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or
anything like that, and many folks had not even heard that this was the
case also (Japanese and gaijin).

but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the
case, and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of
this tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I
have spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.

Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether
or not it is really followed anymore)? Or any of you folks who live/
have lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a
western misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find
out if in fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw
around about how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
--
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/ The Sushi FAQ
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiotaku/ The Sushi Otaku Blog
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiyapedia/ Sushi-Ya-Pedia Restaurant Finder
HTTP://www.theteafaq.com/ The Tea FAQ
HTTP://www.jerkyfaq.com/ The Jerky FAQ
HTTP://www.omega3faq.com/ The Omega 3 Fatty Acids FAQ

Archived from group: alt>food>sushi

James Silverton · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 187

War wrote on Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:26:01 -0500:

W> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ
W> with a gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that
W> this is not the case, and that neither he nor any of his
W> colleagues have ever heard of this tradition. What is odd,
W> is that some Japanese folks with whom I have spoken have
W> said that it *is* traditional, and others have questioned
W> it, most recently, this gentleman.

I don't know about tradition and I don't really care since
eating sushi is not a religious ritual to me. I had always
understood that one did not drink sake *with* sushi and, having
tried it, I fully agree. Cold sake before the meal is always
pleasant but I drink beer, tea or water (in the order of
preference) with the sushi and, from what I have read, tea was
the beverage provided in the early sushi stalls in the Edo
markets.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

John Doe · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 13

On Dec 6, 8:26 am, War wrote:
> This is mostly a question for Ken, but anyone who can help me may
> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
> not mixing well with the rice food.

I've heard this supposed tradition for most of my life. I've only
eaten sushi in the USA, but have eaten it in the entire spectrum of
locations and standards.

I happen to enjoy drinking sake with sushi. Since I am the customer
and they are selling me something AND it does no harm in any way to
anyone, I feel it's my right to drink anything I wish at any place I
eat as long as it's a choice.

If I wished to eat the entire meal with a big spoon that I brought
with me, what's the big deal?

It's not like I'm eating with my feet.

Traditionalists bother me. To make a big deal out of something that
really doesn't concern them is the part that bugs me.

If *they* wish to follow tradition and eat only as tradition allows,
then I sure don't care if that is what makes them happy.

If I choose to eat in some other manner, and it's not something that
is impolite or unclean to the customers around me, then frankly, it's
not their business how I eat my sushi.

Let's face it folks; Sushi was first served to people while standing
around a cart in the street. It wasn't intended to be a "Snobs" meal.

If I wish to drink kool-aid with a straw while eating a $200 sushi
meal, and kool-aid is on the menu, then it should be no ones business
that I'm doing so.

I recently ate in a Chinese owned sushi place and picked up my first
piece of sushi with my fingers. The waitress standing near actually
handed me a fork and told me "It will be much cleaner to eat with
this, than your hands".

After I quit laughing, I told her to "Shoo" while motioning with my
dirty hand in a dismissive manner.

Then I proceeded to finish eating my meal as I wished.

I generally eat everything with chops. I find it easier than eating
with traditional implements most of the time.

I do eat some sushi with my fingers due to the difficultly of eating
them with chops. Ikura Gunkinzushi is one. The seaweed is generally
dry and easy to grab and motivate to my mouth with two fingers.

Hey, I couldn't care less what others use to eat with as long as it
isn't their butt-crack. That one might distract me a bit.

James Silverton · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 187

Wilson wrote on Thu, 06 Dec 2007 09:52:08 -0500:

W> sometime in the recent past James Silverton posted this:
??>> War wrote on Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:26:01 -0500:
??>>
W>>> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ
W>>> with a gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly)
W>>> that this is not the case, and that neither he nor any of
W>>> his colleagues have ever heard of this tradition. What is
W>>> odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I have spoken
W>>> have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
W>>> questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.
??>>
??>> I don't know about tradition and I don't really care since
??>> eating sushi is not a religious ritual to me. I had always

W> And I know I heard it here that one doesn't drink tea until
W> after the dinner is finished, in a way signaling the end of
W> dining.

W> I like beer and I like sake, but to me I find the taste of
W> beer stronger than that of the sake and often drink sake.
W> Then you come to whether the sake should be warm or cold. In
W> the winter, that one seems like a no-brainer to me Wink

W> I generally eat nigiri with my fingers and everything else
W> with chopsticks, except for the soup of course Wink

To each their own of course but, as a matter of interest, how do
you handle soup: with a spoon or lift the bowl to your lips? I
admit that I use both from time to time except if a miso soup
has vegetables that call for chop sticks, in addition. I use
chopsticks for the sushi since I prefer not to have the taste
linger on my fingers and most places don't provide finger bowls.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Ken Blake · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 45

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:26:01 -0500, War
wrote:

> This is mostly a question for Ken,

I'm not sure if I'm the Ken you mean,, but if so, I want to quickly
disqualify myself as being *the* authority on such matters. I've been
eating sushi for about 50 years and I've read several books on the
subject, but neither of those makes me a great expert.

But I'll tell you what I think I know. See below.

> but anyone who can help me may
> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
> not mixing well with the rice food.

Yes, it's my understanding that that's the custom, etiquette, rule, or
whatever you want to call it.

> Just one of those things that
> evolved culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand.
> Numerous sources have indicated that this is the case, again,
> traditionally, not practically. Practically, people do it all the time
> and never think twice, and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or
> anything like that, and many folks had not even heard that this was the
> case also (Japanese and gaijin).
>
> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the
> case, and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of
> this tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I
> have spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
> questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.

I would imagine that in *any* country, if you examine some particular
custom or rule of etiquette, there are some people who know about it
and others who don't. I'm sure it's no different in Japan, or with the
sake-sushi combination, than anywhere else.

> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether
> or not it is really followed anymore)?

That's my understanding, and I've "known" it for many years. I don't
remember where I learned it, but I think I've seen it from several
sources, not just one. Again, I don't claim to be an authority, and
wouldn't bet the farm that it's true. Although I do believe it to be
true, I've believed many things over the years that have turned out to
be false.

> Or any of you folks who live/
> have lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a
> western misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find
> out if in fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw
> around about how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!

I've been in Japan, but never lived there. It was over 25 years ago,
and although I *think* I remember that people generally drank beer or
tea with your sushi, I can't remember for sure.

Personally, I drink whatever I feel like drinking with sushi. I don't
feel bound by any particular set of customs. What I drink depends on
the weather, my mood, etc. I've drunk tea with sushi, I've drunk beer,
and I've drunk sake, both hot and cold.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

War · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Sorry for the top post, but this is getting long....

Thanks for the response, Ken, very interesting stuff and I have to think
how to approach this now.

Musashi, do you have any input but any chance?

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:26:01 -0500, War
> wrote:
>
>> This is mostly a question for Ken,
>
>
> I'm not sure if I'm the Ken you mean,, but if so, I want to quickly
> disqualify myself as being *the* authority on such matters. I've been
> eating sushi for about 50 years and I've read several books on the
> subject, but neither of those makes me a great expert.
>
> But I'll tell you what I think I know. See below.
>
>
>> but anyone who can help me may
>> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
>> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
>> not mixing well with the rice food.
>
>
> Yes, it's my understanding that that's the custom, etiquette, rule, or
> whatever you want to call it.
>
>
>> Just one of those things that
>> evolved culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand.
>> Numerous sources have indicated that this is the case, again,
>> traditionally, not practically. Practically, people do it all the time
>> and never think twice, and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or
>> anything like that, and many folks had not even heard that this was the
>> case also (Japanese and gaijin).
>>
>> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
>> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the
>> case, and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of
>> this tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I
>> have spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
>> questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.
>
>
> I would imagine that in *any* country, if you examine some particular
> custom or rule of etiquette, there are some people who know about it
> and others who don't. I'm sure it's no different in Japan, or with the
> sake-sushi combination, than anywhere else.
>
>
>> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether
>> or not it is really followed anymore)?
>
>
> That's my understanding, and I've "known" it for many years. I don't
> remember where I learned it, but I think I've seen it from several
> sources, not just one. Again, I don't claim to be an authority, and
> wouldn't bet the farm that it's true. Although I do believe it to be
> true, I've believed many things over the years that have turned out to
> be false.
>
>
>> Or any of you folks who live/
>> have lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a
>> western misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find
>> out if in fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw
>> around about how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
>
>
>
> I've been in Japan, but never lived there. It was over 25 years ago,
> and although I *think* I remember that people generally drank beer or
> tea with your sushi, I can't remember for sure.
>
> Personally, I drink whatever I feel like drinking with sushi. I don't
> feel bound by any particular set of customs. What I drink depends on
> the weather, my mood, etc. I've drunk tea with sushi, I've drunk beer,
> and I've drunk sake, both hot and cold.
>

--
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/ The Sushi FAQ
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiotaku/ The Sushi Otaku Blog
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiyapedia/ Sushi-Ya-Pedia Restaurant Finder
HTTP://www.theteafaq.com/ The Tea FAQ
HTTP://www.jerkyfaq.com/ The Jerky FAQ
HTTP://www.omega3faq.com/ The Omega 3 Fatty Acids FAQ

Ken Blake · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 45

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:13:59 -0500, War
wrote:

> Sorry for the top post, but this is getting long....
>
> Thanks for the response, Ken, very interesting stuff and I have to think
> how to approach this now.

You're welcome. Why worry about it at all? Just drink whatever you
like to drink. I'm sure you won't offend anyone, especially if it's in
the US.

> Musashi, do you have any input but any chance?
>
>
>
> Ken Blake wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:26:01 -0500, War
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This is mostly a question for Ken,
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure if I'm the Ken you mean,, but if so, I want to quickly
> > disqualify myself as being *the* authority on such matters. I've been
> > eating sushi for about 50 years and I've read several books on the
> > subject, but neither of those makes me a great expert.
> >
> > But I'll tell you what I think I know. See below.
> >
> >
> >> but anyone who can help me may
> >> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
> >> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
> >> not mixing well with the rice food.
> >
> >
> > Yes, it's my understanding that that's the custom, etiquette, rule, or
> > whatever you want to call it.
> >
> >
> >> Just one of those things that
> >> evolved culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand.
> >> Numerous sources have indicated that this is the case, again,
> >> traditionally, not practically. Practically, people do it all the time
> >> and never think twice, and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or
> >> anything like that, and many folks had not even heard that this was the
> >> case also (Japanese and gaijin).
> >>
> >> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
> >> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the
> >> case, and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of
> >> this tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I
> >> have spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
> >> questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.
> >
> >
> > I would imagine that in *any* country, if you examine some particular
> > custom or rule of etiquette, there are some people who know about it
> > and others who don't. I'm sure it's no different in Japan, or with the
> > sake-sushi combination, than anywhere else.
> >
> >
> >> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether
> >> or not it is really followed anymore)?
> >
> >
> > That's my understanding, and I've "known" it for many years. I don't
> > remember where I learned it, but I think I've seen it from several
> > sources, not just one. Again, I don't claim to be an authority, and
> > wouldn't bet the farm that it's true. Although I do believe it to be
> > true, I've believed many things over the years that have turned out to
> > be false.
> >
> >
> >> Or any of you folks who live/
> >> have lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a
> >> western misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find
> >> out if in fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw
> >> around about how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > I've been in Japan, but never lived there. It was over 25 years ago,
> > and although I *think* I remember that people generally drank beer or
> > tea with your sushi, I can't remember for sure.
> >
> > Personally, I drink whatever I feel like drinking with sushi. I don't
> > feel bound by any particular set of customs. What I drink depends on
> > the weather, my mood, etc. I've drunk tea with sushi, I've drunk beer,
> > and I've drunk sake, both hot and cold.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Musashi · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 158

"War" wrote in message $DF4.1@newsfe09.lga...
> This is mostly a question for Ken, but anyone who can help me may
> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage not
> mixing well with the rice food. Just one of those things that evolved
> culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand. Numerous sources
> have indicated that this is the case, again, traditionally, not
> practically. Practically, people do it all the time and never think twice,
> and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or anything like that, and many
> folks had not even heard that this was the case also (Japanese and
> gaijin).
>
> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the case,
> and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of this
> tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I have
> spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have questioned it,
> most recently, this gentleman.
>
> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether or
> not it is really followed anymore)? Or any of you folks who live/ have
> lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a western
> misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find out if in
> fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw around about
> how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
> --

Hi Warren, just dropped in to see this thread.
I'm not a serious Sake drinker but I think I can cast some light on your
question.
If you walked around in Japan and asked people randomly if there is such a
tradition
most people would say no. I would also.
However in practice, if you sat in 10 sushi retaurants in Japan to watch
people eat you would
see;

1.People who drink Beer with their sushi.
2. People who drink Ocha (tea) with their sushi.
3. People who start off with Sake and a sashimi appetizer, then move
on to the sushi afterwards.

In Japan, Sake (nihonshu) is not really a "drink while you eat" drink as
wine or beer in
in western cuisines. Sake is generally sipped with a small appetizer, called
tsumami (something to pick at)
or more commonly Sake no Sakana (not the same character as Sakana the fish).
It's a something to nibble on while enjoying the sake(often strong tasting
such as sashimi, ikura, shiokara,
a whole wide range of things). Usually it's protein and does not involve
rice or any grain.
At the end of the drinking session one may finish it off with a Ochazuke.
Something with rice.
Whether rice dishes are avoided specifically because Sake (as well as Rice
Shouchu) is made with rice
I do not know. But from a taste experience perspective I would say that Sake
does go better with proteins
than rice dishes.
Besides that, it is commonly known in Japan that rice dishes are filling. If
you started sipping your Sake while
chomping on a rice dish, you would probably get quite full too quickly.
I really don't think this is any set "tradition" or "custom". It simply
developed that way culturally and it's really not
too mysteriously "eastern".
Imagine drinking beer with a choice of say a Sausage (protein) or Bread
(another grain product).
Which would most people choose? Which would fill you up too quickly?

In the US, perhaps because of the practice of drinking wine with the meal,
plus the many years that
Sake was simply called "Rice Wine", many people consider it normal to enjoy
sake with their sushi.
There's really nothing wrong with that if it is one's preference, and even
if you did that in Japan no one
is going to look twice.
Hope this was of some help.

Musashi

Musashi · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 158

"John Doe" wrote in message @i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 6, 8:26 am, War wrote:
>> This is mostly a question for Ken, but anyone who can help me may
>> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
>> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
>> not mixing well with the rice food.
>
> I've heard this supposed tradition for most of my life. I've only
> eaten sushi in the USA, but have eaten it in the entire spectrum of
> locations and standards.
>
> I happen to enjoy drinking sake with sushi. Since I am the customer
> and they are selling me something AND it does no harm in any way to
> anyone, I feel it's my right to drink anything I wish at any place I
> eat as long as it's a choice.
>
> If I wished to eat the entire meal with a big spoon that I brought
> with me, what's the big deal?
>
> It's not like I'm eating with my feet.
>
> Traditionalists bother me. To make a big deal out of something that
> really doesn't concern them is the part that bugs me.
>
> If *they* wish to follow tradition and eat only as tradition allows,
> then I sure don't care if that is what makes them happy.
>
> If I choose to eat in some other manner, and it's not something that
> is impolite or unclean to the customers around me, then frankly, it's
> not their business how I eat my sushi.
>
> Let's face it folks; Sushi was first served to people while standing
> around a cart in the street. It wasn't intended to be a "Snobs" meal.
>
> If I wish to drink kool-aid with a straw while eating a $200 sushi
> meal, and kool-aid is on the menu, then it should be no ones business
> that I'm doing so.
>
> I recently ate in a Chinese owned sushi place and picked up my first
> piece of sushi with my fingers. The waitress standing near actually
> handed me a fork and told me "It will be much cleaner to eat with
> this, than your hands".
>
> After I quit laughing, I told her to "Shoo" while motioning with my
> dirty hand in a dismissive manner.
>
> Then I proceeded to finish eating my meal as I wished.
>
> I generally eat everything with chops. I find it easier than eating
> with traditional implements most of the time.
>
> I do eat some sushi with my fingers due to the difficultly of eating
> them with chops. Ikura Gunkinzushi is one. The seaweed is generally
> dry and easy to grab and motivate to my mouth with two fingers.
>
> Hey, I couldn't care less what others use to eat with as long as it
> isn't their butt-crack. That one might distract me a bit.

haha. Nice ending.

War · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Musashi wrote:
> "War" wrote in message
> $DF4.1@newsfe09.lga...
>> This is mostly a question for Ken, but anyone who can help me may
>> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
>> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage not
>> mixing well with the rice food. Just one of those things that evolved
>> culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand. Numerous sources
>> have indicated that this is the case, again, traditionally, not
>> practically. Practically, people do it all the time and never think twice,
>> and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or anything like that, and many
>> folks had not even heard that this was the case also (Japanese and
>> gaijin).
>>
>> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
>> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the case,
>> and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of this
>> tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I have
>> spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have questioned it,
>> most recently, this gentleman.
>>
>> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether or
>> not it is really followed anymore)? Or any of you folks who live/ have
>> lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a western
>> misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find out if in
>> fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw around about
>> how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
>> --
>
> Hi Warren, just dropped in to see this thread.
> I'm not a serious Sake drinker but I think I can cast some light on your
> question.
> If you walked around in Japan and asked people randomly if there is such a
> tradition
> most people would say no. I would also.
> However in practice, if you sat in 10 sushi retaurants in Japan to watch
> people eat you would
> see;
>
> 1.People who drink Beer with their sushi.
> 2. People who drink Ocha (tea) with their sushi.
> 3. People who start off with Sake and a sashimi appetizer, then move
> on to the sushi afterwards.
>
> In Japan, Sake (nihonshu) is not really a "drink while you eat" drink as
> wine or beer in
> in western cuisines. Sake is generally sipped with a small appetizer, called
> tsumami (something to pick at)
> or more commonly Sake no Sakana (not the same character as Sakana the fish).
> It's a something to nibble on while enjoying the sake(often strong tasting
> such as sashimi, ikura, shiokara,
> a whole wide range of things). Usually it's protein and does not involve
> rice or any grain.
> At the end of the drinking session one may finish it off with a Ochazuke.
> Something with rice.
> Whether rice dishes are avoided specifically because Sake (as well as Rice
> Shouchu) is made with rice
> I do not know. But from a taste experience perspective I would say that Sake
> does go better with proteins
> than rice dishes.
> Besides that, it is commonly known in Japan that rice dishes are filling. If
> you started sipping your Sake while
> chomping on a rice dish, you would probably get quite full too quickly.
> I really don't think this is any set "tradition" or "custom". It simply
> developed that way culturally and it's really not
> too mysteriously "eastern".
> Imagine drinking beer with a choice of say a Sausage (protein) or Bread
> (another grain product).
> Which would most people choose? Which would fill you up too quickly?
>
> In the US, perhaps because of the practice of drinking wine with the meal,
> plus the many years that
> Sake was simply called "Rice Wine", many people consider it normal to enjoy
> sake with their sushi.
> There's really nothing wrong with that if it is one's preference, and even
> if you did that in Japan no one
> is going to look twice.
> Hope this was of some help.
>
> Musashi
>
>
>
this is quite helpful, may I quote you on this? Wink

--
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/ The Sushi FAQ
HTTP://www.sushifaq.com/sushiotaku/ The Sushi Otaku Blog
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War · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:13:59 -0500, War
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the top post, but this is getting long....
>>
>> Thanks for the response, Ken, very interesting stuff and I have to think
>> how to approach this now.
>
>
> You're welcome. Why worry about it at all? Just drink whatever you
> like to drink. I'm sure you won't offend anyone, especially if it's in
> the US.

It' snot that I'm worried about the practice, I just wanted to clear up
the issue on the FAQ. Getting a conflicting response from this Japanese
gentleman regarding the issue made me want to dig more deeply and see if
I was perpetuating a myth, or if there was some truth to the story Smile

thanks though.

>
>
>> Musashi, do you have any input but any chance?
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken Blake wrote:
>>> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 08:26:01 -0500, War
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is mostly a question for Ken,
>>>
>>> I'm not sure if I'm the Ken you mean,, but if so, I want to quickly
>>> disqualify myself as being *the* authority on such matters. I've been
>>> eating sushi for about 50 years and I've read several books on the
>>> subject, but neither of those makes me a great expert.
>>>
>>> But I'll tell you what I think I know. See below.
>>>
>>>
>>>> but anyone who can help me may
>>>> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
>>>> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
>>>> not mixing well with the rice food.
>>>
>>> Yes, it's my understanding that that's the custom, etiquette, rule, or
>>> whatever you want to call it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just one of those things that
>>>> evolved culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand.
>>>> Numerous sources have indicated that this is the case, again,
>>>> traditionally, not practically. Practically, people do it all the time
>>>> and never think twice, and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or
>>>> anything like that, and many folks had not even heard that this was the
>>>> case also (Japanese and gaijin).
>>>>
>>>> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
>>>> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the
>>>> case, and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of
>>>> this tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I
>>>> have spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
>>>> questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.
>>>
>>> I would imagine that in *any* country, if you examine some particular
>>> custom or rule of etiquette, there are some people who know about it
>>> and others who don't. I'm sure it's no different in Japan, or with the
>>> sake-sushi combination, than anywhere else.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether
>>>> or not it is really followed anymore)?
>>>
>>> That's my understanding, and I've "known" it for many years. I don't
>>> remember where I learned it, but I think I've seen it from several
>>> sources, not just one. Again, I don't claim to be an authority, and
>>> wouldn't bet the farm that it's true. Although I do believe it to be
>>> true, I've believed many things over the years that have turned out to
>>> be false.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Or any of you folks who live/
>>>> have lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a
>>>> western misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find
>>>> out if in fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw
>>>> around about how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been in Japan, but never lived there. It was over 25 years ago,
>>> and although I *think* I remember that people generally drank beer or
>>> tea with your sushi, I can't remember for sure.
>>>
>>> Personally, I drink whatever I feel like drinking with sushi. I don't
>>> feel bound by any particular set of customs. What I drink depends on
>>> the weather, my mood, etc. I've drunk tea with sushi, I've drunk beer,
>>> and I've drunk sake, both hot and cold.
>

--
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Musashi · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 158

"War" wrote in message @news.supernews.com...
> Musashi wrote:
>> "War" wrote in message
>> $DF4.1@newsfe09.lga...
>>> This is mostly a question for Ken, but anyone who can help me may
>>> certainly chime in. I had always been told that traditionally, one does
>>> not drink sake with sushi, something to do with a rice based beverage
>>> not mixing well with the rice food. Just one of those things that
>>> evolved culturally, which as a westerner I might not understand.
>>> Numerous sources have indicated that this is the case, again,
>>> traditionally, not practically. Practically, people do it all the time
>>> and never think twice, and as I understand, it is not a 'rule' or
>>> anything like that, and many folks had not even heard that this was the
>>> case also (Japanese and gaijin).
>>>
>>> but.... I have been in deep conversation regarding the FAQ with a
>>> gentleman from Tokyo who is telling me (kindly) that this is not the
>>> case, and that neither he nor any of his colleagues have ever heard of
>>> this tradition. What is odd, is that some Japanese folks with whom I
>>> have spoken have said that it *is* traditional, and others have
>>> questioned it, most recently, this gentleman.
>>>
>>> Ken, could you either confirm or deny that this is a tradition (whether
>>> or not it is really followed anymore)? Or any of you folks who live/
>>> have lived in Japan, have you heard this? I would hate to perpetuate a
>>> western misunderstanding any longer than I have to, so I'd like to find
>>> out if in fact this is true, or just something westerners like to throw
>>> around about how different 'traditional' sushi dining is. Thanks!
>>> --
>>
>> Hi Warren, just dropped in to see this thread.
>> I'm not a serious Sake drinker but I think I can cast some light on your
>> question.
>> If you walked around in Japan and asked people randomly if there is such
>> a tradition
>> most people would say no. I would also.
>> However in practice, if you sat in 10 sushi retaurants in Japan to watch
>> people eat you would
>> see;
>>
>> 1.People who drink Beer with their sushi.
>> 2. People who drink Ocha (tea) with their sushi.
>> 3. People who start off with Sake and a sashimi appetizer, then move
>> on to the sushi afterwards.
>>
>> In Japan, Sake (nihonshu) is not really a "drink while you eat" drink as
>> wine or beer in
>> in western cuisines. Sake is generally sipped with a small appetizer,
>> called tsumami (something to pick at)
>> or more commonly Sake no Sakana (not the same character as Sakana the
>> fish).
>> It's a something to nibble on while enjoying the sake(often strong
>> tasting such as sashimi, ikura, shiokara,
>> a whole wide range of things). Usually it's protein and does not involve
>> rice or any grain.
>> At the end of the drinking session one may finish it off with a Ochazuke.
>> Something with rice.
>> Whether rice dishes are avoided specifically because Sake (as well as
>> Rice Shouchu) is made with rice
>> I do not know. But from a taste experience perspective I would say that
>> Sake does go better with proteins
>> than rice dishes.
>> Besides that, it is commonly known in Japan that rice dishes are filling.
>> If you started sipping your Sake while
>> chomping on a rice dish, you would probably get quite full too quickly.
>> I really don't think this is any set "tradition" or "custom". It simply
>> developed that way culturally and it's really not
>> too mysteriously "eastern".
>> Imagine drinking beer with a choice of say a Sausage (protein) or Bread
>> (another grain product).
>> Which would most people choose? Which would fill you up too quickly?
>>
>> In the US, perhaps because of the practice of drinking wine with the
>> meal, plus the many years that
>> Sake was simply called "Rice Wine", many people consider it normal to
>> enjoy sake with their sushi.
>> There's really nothing wrong with that if it is one's preference, and
>> even if you did that in Japan no one
>> is going to look twice.
>> Hope this was of some help.
>>
>> Musashi
>>
>>
>>
> this is quite helpful, may I quote you on this? Wink

>

If you think it's quotable or worthy of quoting , please feel free. Smile

M

asahitoro · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 4

In article ,
"Musashi" wrote:

> In the US, perhaps because of the practice of drinking wine with the meal,
> plus the many years that
> Sake was simply called "Rice Wine", many people consider it normal to enjoy
> sake with their sushi.

Isn't Sake technically defined as a beer although many refer to it as
wine?

Dan Logcher · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 217

asahitoro@nospam.com wrote:
> In article ,
> "Musashi" wrote:
>
>
>
>>In the US, perhaps because of the practice of drinking wine with the meal,
>>plus the many years that
>>Sake was simply called "Rice Wine", many people consider it normal to enjoy
>>sake with their sushi.
>
>
>
> Isn't Sake technically defined as a beer although many refer to it as
> wine?

Sake is brewed similarly to beer. The traditional practice is you don't drink
rice when you eat rice.. ie no sake with sushi. Sake with sashimi is ok.

I don't drink sake much anyways, I usually have a Japanese beer when I eat
sushi. I'm not sure it really matters nowadays unless you are trying to
impress a proper Japanese business man.

--
Dan

Ken Blake · Joined: 26 Jul 2007 Posts: 45

On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:55:51 -0500, asahitoro@nospam.com wrote:

> In article ,
> "Musashi" wrote:
>
>
> > In the US, perhaps because of the practice of drinking wine with the meal,
> > plus the many years that
> > Sake was simply called "Rice Wine", many people consider it normal to enjoy
> > sake with their sushi.
>
>
> Isn't Sake technically defined as a beer although many refer to it as
> wine?

Yes. Wine is made from grapes, and by extension, many people use the
word "wine" to describe a beverage fermented from other fruits too.

Beer is made from grain (the seeds of grasses). Rice is a grain,
therefore sake is a (non-carbonated) beer.

--
Ken Blake
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